So admittedly i am not the most well read on Islam, but i am aware that generally the entire muslim world has a majority of the population despising the US/Isntreal at this point right?

So with everything going on i can’t help but think there is a non-zero chance this could trigger a 2nd arab sping. If US Vassals in the region sit idly by while Iran, and its allies are in full blown war with the US/isntreal i can see it really fucking pissing off a lot of the population in the muslim world.

Am i reading this wrong, and there isn’t really any proper organization in most of these countries to pull something off, or could we actually see some real popular pressure start to form against US-backed states/monarchies?

  • ☭CommieWolf☆@lemmygrad.ml
    20·
    7 days ago

    You’re somewhat generalizing a lot of people based on assumptions about them that we would like to be true.

    Firstly, Arabs, Muslims, whomever you may be referring to, are human beings first, and they are for the most part living through similar, or likely worse conditions under modern capitalism than you or I. To assume that the people all across the middle east should be willing to risk their lives, and those of their children, to rebel against not just their own state, but the combined backing of the US, Israel, and Europe, is to reduce them to extremely ideologically motivated and selfless people. While there are many who have such motivations, the vast majority, are regular human beings just like the rest of the world, who’s immediate security and safety will come first, alienated further from any mass action by oppressive capitalism and a large sense of defeatism. In all honesty there is only the nations of Yemen and Iran that are in the kind of position to be willing to put up such a fight, but their governments already represent their views.

    Ask any person anywhere whether they would stake their livelihood, their children’s security, and their futures to try and topple an unjust government, for enabling the actions of another country, against the people of a third country, and it’s not hard to see why it is a very, very hard sell, regardless of whether or not you are Muslim or Arab.

    Besides, who can blame them, when it shouldn’t even be their fight? It’s the western governments who have started this, and it is western families who’s children will have to fight should there be a war. Where are the indignant westerners who should be outraged by their governments trying to drag THEM into war? Why aren’t they more outraged that THEY could be sent to die? A middle eastern person may dislike Israel, or the US, but the western people should be furious, as they are the ones being dragged into something they want nothing to do with.

    • IHave69XiBucks@lemmygrad.mlOP
      3·
      7 days ago

      Yeah totally agree on the westerners point, and wasn’t trying to imply that it’s somehow the muslim worlds responsibility to stop this. I just kind of have no hope for the west in general so don’t even bother with them.

      I think my confusion on it was because i was seeing stuff saying that Irans leader the ayatollah is some sort of pope like figure in islam in general. So i wasn’t sure if that meant like lots of religious orgs in other countries might organize to try and support Iran and maybe they could harness some sort of public outrage about the situation and general disdain for isntreal/US.

      I get what you mean by the not risking their own lives needlessly thing too. It makes sense. I’m not really familiar with the quality of life situation in most middle eastern countries. I know generally speaking the worse the conditions are the more likely people decide to do something about it. So i guess conditions might not be perfect but are still decent enough people can try to live normal lives. Outside of conflict zones anyway. Which is good even if it means less overt resistance to the US right now. Id rather people just get to live.

      I guess the best thing i could compare it to is like Catholics. Like if the pope got air striked youve got a pretty large international organization that would come to his defence. Even if not physically then financially. Is there any sort of similar thing for the Ayatollah? How does that even work like a see Erdogan posturing as the defender of the muslim world too. Do all the world leaders of big muslim countries just act like theyre the leader is islam? So the Ayaltollah would only really be relevant in Iran itself?

      • ☭CommieWolf☆@lemmygrad.ml
        3·
        7 days ago

        I’m not an expert, so anyone is free to correct me, but if I could make any comparison to western religions, Islam is similar to Orthodox Christianity, where religious leadership is much less centralized and there is a “Patriarch” for each country. Since there isn’t really a cross cultural religious head for most Muslims. Various regions have their own “Grand Mufti” in the case of Sunni Islam, such as the grand Mufti of Cairo, or the now viciously persecuted Grand Mufti of Syria. In the case of Twelver Shia Islam, which is the religion of Iran, the clerical system is made up of several regional Grand Ayatollahs which serve various regions across Iran, as well as some in Iraq I believe, with the Supreme Leader Khamenei at the top of the clerical hierarchy. Note, that this is for a religious sect that is only really prominent within Iran itself and parts of Iraq.

        Now does that equate him to the pope? Sort of, but if Catholicism was limited to only Italy, and the pope was also the president of Italy. This is why I am not really fond of this western framing to try and draw a parallel, because it misunderstands and generalizes Islam far too much.

        I would compare targeting him to be akin to targeting say the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church, it would still be outrageous and pretty much solidify the entire country’s hatred for whoever did it. But I would not expect international outpourings of religious Orthodox nations scrambling to offer support.

  • Commiejones@lemmygrad.ml
    12·
    7 days ago

    I think I read somewhere that egypt, jordan, and saudi america all spoke out against the israeli attack on Iran. they may be collaborationist scum but they aren’t dumb enough to side with the zionists on this one. So I doubt this will lead to a bunch of revolutions.