Shit like this always remind me of the videogame SOMA.
Define “you.” An identical collection and pattern of atoms and subatomic particles? Then yes. A continuous consciousness as experienced by the “me” on the entry side of the teleporter? No.
Would I kill myself to save five lives and create one? Yes
The trolley problem but the only way to pull the lever is to take a nap first.
Since your consciousness stopped and then a new was started from the same meat is it still you?
If it is, then surely a new consciousness constructed from a pile of meat identical to your brain would also be you?
Depends if teleportation uses TCP or UDP
And what compression algorithm are they using?
Quantum mechanic wavelengths in mp3. So you might arrive a bit off.
No. Not because teleporter but because no need for multi track drifting if other path clear.
But if I don’t do it, I’m not who I think I am.
Nah, I’ll send Tom Riker.
ok, i’m too stupid for this picture…why are commenters implying you die when you use the transporter? it’s next to the rails isn’t it?
It depends on how it works. The most popular form of transporter works by scanning your body down to the subatomic level, deconstructing the original body, and creating a perfect replica somewhere else. Imagine for a moment that it didn’t deconstruct the original body (as seen in Star Trek: The Next Generation episode Second Chances). The original and the copy are two separate entities.
A transporter doesn’t move you, it kills and reincarnates you. Unless it uses some kinda space bending wormhole tech to physically move the atoms from one spot to another, of course—then it doesn’t kill you, and you’re safe to pull the lever
A common conundrum with science-fiction teleporters is that they’re often described as breaking down, and then recreating, matter.
With a human being (or other sentient life form), this brings up the philosophical question of whether the ‘recreated’ you is really you? If you were taken apart in chunks, and then someone put an exact copy of you back together from those chunks, would it still be the same ‘you’ that was taken apart? Or would it be a new ‘you’, some copy or clone with all of your memories?
A fun little thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXKUcsvhQc
Can confirm, was a fun little thing. Thanks for that!
ok, so the question is actually “would you use a teleporter to save someone’s life not knowing if you would still be you afterwards”. i was thrown off by the train tracks because usually it implies sending someone else to certain death. thanks for clearing that up.
so i guess my answer would be of course. if transporters have become so ubiqitous that they are installed in seemingly random locations and with no fee or safety measures before using them i guess they are safe to use :)
I suggest watching CGP grey’s video on teleporters.
If it’s jot you then the question becomes, are you willing to commit suicide so a reasonable facsimile of you can save some strangers.
I’d pull the lever if I was tied to the other track. The only meaningful difference is that there will be someone who shares my values and experiences roaming the earth after I die. I can live with that.
I wonder if that would inspire him to become healthier and live longer. If I knew someome sacrificed their life so I could live, I would probably treat my body a lot better. Maybe I should go through a transporter…
I’m willing to die to save people, so if some version of me actually gets to survive it, with there being a chance that it is me, then there’s no reason for me not to do it.
Are you willing to die to save any people?
People dumb enough to nap on a trolley trail? No. rich people? Also no.
Actually this would be faster the other way around.
Orphans with chronic diseases who, should they be saved stand a reasonable chance at a cure and a long, prosperous and happy life?
Also no.
What about someone whose dog will miss them very much?
What about an orphaned baby of a very rich family, when it will grow up it will have a very lavish life through inheritance, but as it stands right now it is just an innocent baby?
I know how teleportation machines work and I won’t be using one.
Wait, you… you do?
If we’re talking about atom-by-atom reconstruction, then the question is about philosophical zombies.
I don’t put much stock in any philosophies that say
youthe constructed being definitely would be a zombie. But I do believe in the possibility thatyouthe constructed being could be a zombie.Zombie? More like vegetable. And what would kickstart your heart beating? What about the bacteria in your guts?
And what would kickstart your heart beating?
Skydive naked from an aeroplane, or perhaps a lady with a body from outer space
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
A philosophical zombie (or “p-zombie”) is a being in a thought experiment in the philosophy of mind that is physically identical to a normal human being but does not have conscious experience.
I think that it is covered by “atom-by-atom”. I suppose all matter that enters the machine is moved (or even if copied). Heart will just kickstart, because it runs on electrochemistry, if the ionic energy is there from all required “atoms”. But that raises the question: does the energy state of that matter get transfered?
My concern would be less about whether it sends the original or creates a perfect copy, but more about how reliable it is. Getting Riker’d/Boimler’d would be okay, but having more than a negligible chance of any other sort of transporter accident would definitely give me pause.
Do you want tuvix? Because this is how you get tuvix.
Leaving the top track empty is clever
It won’t be me and, unless I have some loved one there, I’m not thoughtlessly jumping into suicide.
If it’s a wormhole or Niven-style teleporter, it’s unarguably you coming through the process. Star Trek… I’ll grant that the conversation gets a little more complicated.
i think this particular case implies itbis quantum teleportation where your body is destructed and simultaneously reassembled on the other side
I think teleportation is a really interesting philosophical question. If life is deterministic and there is no soul, then there should be no problem with teleportation. From a deterministic atheist perspective it should not be a problem, I wouldn’t teleport myself though 😅
Doesn’t matter because your original brain was destroyed. You would be dead and a copy of you would remain.
Was it though? I’d argue it was disassembled. And a pen wouldn’t stop being the same pen if you disassemble it, take the pieces somewhere else, and assemble it again. This is the same but at an atomic level.
Nope. If it makes a perfect copy of you during transport … you die during the transport.
If you come through with a transporter clone your original mind doesn’t inhabit both of them … so your original mind will not inhabit either of them.
What is your “original mind” though? Is there such a thing? Are you the same you you were last night? You only “Inhabit yourself” in the present, so the continuity of your mind is just an illusion. For the clone, they would be as “you” as you are, and in fact it would be impossible to tell the difference between you and your clone for anyone, including yourself. Maybe you’re the clone?
I think it’s mostly a semantic argument: nothing is being “teleported”, it’s a copy. That copy will surely be a perfect copy of me at time T, and after T we’ll drift and become different folks, but a copy of me is not me, and if you punch the copy it doesn’t hurt me. SOMA showcases it pretty well! Anything else cannot even be conceived, right? And even if matter could be “transported” FTL into a different place, wouldn’t the “zipping” process destroy me? The silver cord would be cut, and even if the person on the other side wakes up feeling like me, I would already be gone. It’s consciousness and the vessel for consciousness, not one or the other.
I like your time T example. Kind of a ship of Theseus theme. If your own body is constantly replacing your cells, are you still the same you from last month? So what’s the difference if the cells are replaced by your own biological mechanisms or this teleporter machine?
Also, if this is a copy, why destroy the original in the first place? I could use a second me. Just the they would be located elsewhere for some time. Maybe they could also develop some kind of merge process where we re-integrate back together and our common experiences become part of the same memory.
Still I prefer the concept of some kind of wormhole or space warp type of teleportation, where you can bend space to move from location a to location b and no matter is destroyed or recreated.
This is the same reason I feel like peoples ideas of being “uploaded to the Matrix” are just as flawed. All of the same talking points but with a digital output. Being uploaded means death because my consciousness will cease to exist and simply be emulated by a computer after.
The only one who gain the benefit of me uploading is everyone but myself.
That one I can almost see happening but not full ‘upload’ style. It would have to be gradual in like a Ship of Theseus’ style where the parts that make you ‘you’ are gradually replaced with digital equivalents.
i think the big question is continuity of consciousness. when you sleep or especially when getting surgery and dont dream you just sort of accept that you now are the same you that existed before the disconnect. if when you went under and we tossed you into a teleporter would you know?
Deterministic atheism isn’t at odds with a soul or non-physicalism. See: Walden Pod
