California Governor Gavin Newsom has formally requested Trump administration officials to rescind the order to deploy the National Guard and return control of the force to California, calling the initial order unlawful and “intentionally designed to inflame the situation.”
“I have formally requested the Trump Administration rescind their unlawful deployment of troops in Los Angeles county and return them to my command,” Newsom wrote on X, formerly Twitter. “We didn’t have a problem until Trump got involved. This is a serious breach of state sovereignty — inflaming tensions while pulling resources from where they’re actually needed. Rescind the order. Return control to California.”
“No” - president taco
More like Yes but in two weeks
Trump is again violating the Constitution. he does not have Title 10 authority to federalize the National Guard for anything short of national emergencies. The Constitution assigns that responsibility to the governors of the states, not the President.
Trump’s repeated unconstitutional seizing of power should have had him forcibly removed from office many times over. That Congress has not performed their duty to the people and our Constitution is all the proof we need that a purge is required if we want to survive.
Yeah, I’m sure if you just ask nicely the nazis will go away.
Build the state guard. Stop using the national guard.
Hell, deploy state guard to protect protestors.
We are ruled by idiots.
We’re ruled by rich people who know exactly what they’re doing.
bingo
Not to be aggressive or contrary. But what would you suggest we do?
Something you shouldn’t be talking about on Lemmy.
We need to change our culture.
Stop valuing consumerism and consumerist tendencies.
I don’t think we can do it unless we’re forced to, though.
wanderingmagus has a good point. Since the people exploiting us are also using their power to control what we value, fighting back directly and without permission may be the only option.
I have so much more faith in East LA to fight back than anyone in a position of power.
This is an example of somebody in a position of power fighting back. He may be a shitbag in general, but he is fighting back.
Fighting back would have been ordering them to withdraw using his lawful authority, and if they refused, ordering their arrest. This is just fucking around.
I’m torn.
On the one hand, CA has no military, so attempting diplomacy and formal protocol is logical, even responsible. By “responsible,” I simply mean that picking a fight you know you can’t win, and doing so on behalf of the people you represent, is usually irresponsible, since they will be the ones who suffer.
On the other hand, the closest thing to diplomacy Trump understands is some combination of posturing and quid pro quo. Historically, formal correspondence of rival leaders tends to have a varnish of politeness like this, even in the midst of bloody wars. (Indeed this “formal request” does convey a demand, an accusation, and a veiled threat.) But is someone with a demonstrably facile notion of power capable of understanding such subtext, or will they see only weakness?
Most importantly, I think there comes a time to commit to the inevitable conclusion. If you know the authoritarian will continue to threaten brutality against your people to ensure their compliance, it becomes your duty to say “do your worst or pound sand,” since you know compliance only delays and worsens their suffering, and a threat to the will of a people is always greater.
We do, it’s just small. And shares membership with the national guard.
Same but even smaller.
We didn’t have a problem until Trump got involved.
Is an insane thing for the Governor to claim when ICE was snatching random people off the street.
Paramount had a huge problem when ICE just started grabbing people out of the front of a Home Depot for being brown. That triggered the public backlash which got the news coverage which lead to Trump trying to launch a Fallujah style invasion of LA.
The situation was fully fucked by lawless ICE officially kidnapping people well before Trump tried to ratchet tensions further.
You’re conflating two different problems. Yes, ICE kidnapping people was a problem before the national guard thing, but Newsom’s words were specifically about a problem with the protests.
I dont interpret that as conflation, more pointing out, why doesn’t Newsom consider ICE kidnappings a problem?? He’s only concerned about the unrest just like he pretends to be addressing homelessness by criminalization
"Continued chaotic federal sweeps, across California, to meet an arbitrary arrest quota are as reckless as they are cruel.
Donald Trump’s chaos is eroding trust, tearing families apart, and undermining the workers and industries that power America’s economy."
Newsom condemning ICE raids
Yeah okay. Like a strongly worded letter is gonna do anything?
Gavin: Just fly to DC and physically smack Trump around. You’re in way better shape than he is, you’re guaranteed to win.
I’m assuming that he’s just creating a paper trail for when things inevitably escalate. If this is all he’s got, though, it’s pretty weak.
Strongly worded letters are all the current Dems are good at.
As if the public is doing anything more substantial.
The public out there on the streets of LA this weekend are certainly doing substantial things. Why the defeatism? Go join them and help.
It’s not just LA this weekend, either. People have been fighting against ICE all over the country.
It’s not defeatism to point out the public literally voted this in.
Oh, all of us?
No but more people voted for this and that’s how the system works.
It’s not defeatism
that’s how the system works
So, it’s not defeatism, you’re just arguing for maintaining the status quo? If that’s not defeatism in the face of a system that is mass arresting people, then what is it? What exactly is your point?
Edit: ah, just noticed that you are a moderator of conservative@lemm.ee. Maybe you really do want to uphold the status quo of Trump’s directives.
There’s more ICE agents on the street than protesters
You might try stepping away from your keyboard and checking for yourself.
lol no there’s not
Where did you find the official count? I want to look it up too.
Nah they’re waiting to be saved by a party that they intentionally ensured had no control over any single segment of the government.
It’s amazing how every time the Republicans are doing something shitty and the voters didn’t give dems control all some people can do is point out what the dems are or aren’t doing.
Dems do something 6/10 bad? “Same shit different pile fuck the dems I’m voting Republican”
Republicans do something 8/10 ghastly? “Wow why didn’t the democrats stop them?”
I don’t understand what these people expect Democrats to be doing to “fight back”. They have absolutely no legislative power, they’re already filing lawsuits en masse but ALSO don’t control any meaningful courts, and they’re aggressively holding town halls and publishing their message to rally the people. Some of them are getting arrested trying to forcibly do their jobs but no, the Democrats are just letting this happen!!!
The American people are waiting to be saved by a political party that they intentionally made toothless, but they forget that governing is only allowed at the consent of the governed.
“I have formally requested the Trump Administration rescind their unlawful deployment of troops in Los Angeles county and return them to my command,” Newsom wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
If it’s unlawful, you don’t need to ask. Just tell them to go home.
He’s giving Trump an off-ramp before escalation. Most politicians are better at politics than Trump is, they don’t go straight to the nuclear option.
Maybe you should when the National Guard is illegally occupying your state? If not now, when?
Expecting Trump to play ball and use California as anything but a whipping boy is a pipe dream.
If not now, when?
After you give Trump a peaceful off-ramp, as I said.
You may be keen to jump straight into a full blown civil war but most people would rather see that all reasonable efforts to avoid it are taken first.
As fucked up as everything is Im half happy the knee jerk reactions of some of the people on here aren’t taken seriously.
Trump:
When fascists said “states rights”, they actually meant “localized tyranny”. As in, the ability for them to impose their tyranny on whatever size jurisdiction they currently held.
Anyone who isn’t a neoliberal cuck warned they would seize the opportunity to impose their beliefs on the whole country, or the entire planet, the moment the option became available to them, because they are criminally corrupt, sociopathic authoritarian megalomaniacs, and always have been.
Send state troopers after the national guard. Nothing matters anymore. Form a california militia, fuck all. Send a message to the gangs that they won’t prosecute crimes against the national guard because this is self-defense.
That would incite civil war.
What’s your alternative? Roll over and let them win?
Yeah why incite a civil war, just ignore the invasion and let them win without resistance /s
Start emergency roadwork right outside ICE facilities.
None of this is gonna happen.
The national guard is the state’s militia.
Not when it’s been federalized.
The California National Guard is militia from the state of California, but it is not the state’s militia. The state also has the California State Guard, which is exclusively under the authority of the governor.
Many (Most?) states have their own dedicated militia, as well as National Guard units.
Not quite, I’m related to someone in my States guard and they focus more on humanitarian efforts and disaster response but they are trained as a militia and under the governor’s command separate from the national guard
I don’t understand how Newsom can’t just order the CA national guard to not follow unlawfully given orders.
I’m not a lawyer but the statute in the Constitution that is written into the executive order as the authorization for it literally says the national guard are under control of the state Governor.
Why can’t Newsom give the guard orders and tell Trump to go fuck himself and see what happens? I guess at that point you’ll have conflicting orders from federal and state but, in theory, the national guard are under command of the state Governor and he’s their highest authority. So they should follow Newsom’s orders.
Like I said IANAL so I’m sure I’m missing something but for fuck sake this is outrageous. We’re rounding people up for not having a paper, they’re not even hardened criminals. If this was hardcore enforcement of actual dangerous people that would be one thing. These are just innocent undocumented migrants trying to live the their lives same as the rest of us.
I don’t understand how Newsom can’t just order the CA national guard to not follow unlawfully given orders
That would mean confronting Trump directly, and Newsom is a coward who doesn’t really expect the Nat Guard to follow his orders over Trump’s.
I don’t remember the law or EO that made it so, but sometime after September 11th the President was granted the power to take command of the National Guard. That’s not what the Constitution says? Throw it on the pile.
In practical terms, in any given situation where both are giving conflicting or even antagonistic orders, do you listen to the governor of your state or the President of the United States?
In practical terms, in any given situation where both are giving conflicting or even antagonistic orders, do you listen to the governor of your state or the President of the United States?
Kinda depends on the orders
Spin the scenario around; follow the orders of a sane President or a regressive, criminal Governor?
Except that judgement call is largely subjective. The above is literally what any conservative voter who happens to be in the Guard would think of the current situation.
It’s a messy situation to be in, one fraught with desertion, courts-martial, and sabotage.
Spin the scenario around; follow the orders of a sane President or a regressive, criminal Governor?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_in_the_Schoolhouse_Door
The above is literally what any conservative voter who happens to be in the Guard would think of the current situation.
The conservative voter is going to side with the conservative politician, regardless of which office they hold.
It’s a messy situation to be in, one fraught with desertion, courts-martial, and sabotage.
Maybe. I guess we’ll see.
The last time it happened was pretty much your spin scenario. I was 5 at the time and remember my parents following it in the newspaper.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/march-20/lbj-sends-federal-troops-to-alabama
They’re required to serve at the president’s command as leader of the military/executive branch. As long as it doesn’t violate the constitution. Which they swore an oath to.
If trump gives any orders that go against that, then they are required to disobey them. They will not be allowed to use them as a defense during trial, or if something like the Nürburgring trial happens.
Right now, it’s not against the constitution. Yet. There’s a loophole they’re using and Gavin knows it. He’s also too much of a coward to use similar tactics against trump, so he’ll high road California right into federal control.
Minor thing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring compared to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials
Ah, crap, good catch, thank you :) My bad.
It seems ignoring the constitution while continually & increasingly granting power to the federal government for more than a century may have had some consequences.
That’s thee theme of this century, didn’t you get the memo?
The Consequences of the 20th
